When do SSs stop coming to stay…

C

CatLady84

New member
hello all, wondering if some of those with older skids may have some insight.

ESS will be 17 this month. And YSS will be 14 soon. YSS tends to have more social occasions like birthday parties - sleepovers, paintball etc and we of course encourage him to attend if it falls on a weekend he would be with us. Because they live in another city about an hour away this means stay at home or cutting down the time he comes to us that weekend.
ESS doesn’t seem to have much going on socially. I think he really struggled with friends because of Covid and the age he was at. He has started college now and seems to have made some new friends and enjoying his course. However,(this weekend in particular) ESS is so grumpy and moody and it just seems like he doesn’t want to be here. OH and I have been discussing actually why is he here if he doesn’t want to be? And I fully appreciate he may want to be here but in a typical teenager way still acts like it’s awful.. but we were wondering how to approach the subject that actually he is getting to the age where if he doesn’t want to come he doesn’t have to - he is more independent now and can decide for himself and make his own plans. Obviously he is always welcome here on the usual skids weekends and at other times (subject to him checking what our plans are). I had always assumed this would be a natural progression as he had more social plans and didn’t come as often but this has not happened yet, so maybe it is too early.

The other thing is that OH is scared to say anything in case it comes across as a rejection. ESS can be very defensive so I can imagine if we said to him if you don’t want to come you don’t have to - he will respond with “fine I won’t then”. And obviously we want him to feel welcome to come and go as he likes and that we still want to see him and spend time with him.

How did your skids start to visit on their own terms?

I guess the difficulty is transport so arrangements to come here and go home still involve BFH. The trains between the two houses are not easy to use.
 
I think they do seem to want to assert their independence more at a certain age. SS is about 18 months younger and started doing that. The difference is, his Mum stopped following the court order and told him "he could choose for himself". For quite some time - and then tempting him with things to stay there. This, in some ways, has backfired as then he really did starting to choose for himself and she didn't like it! And I must admit it was pretty chaotic here too never knowing when he was going to turn up or for how long. So EFH reined him back in and it's more regimented again now - but he does still have an element of choosing at various times (of his own volition).

It's a difficult age and at 17 and at college they will want more freedom and not to feel too constrained by routines. However I think it would be better not to discuss this directly with ESS but for your DH to discuss it with the boys Mum - unless you think she would take advantage of it.

I have actually got used to things chopping and changing and just have more contingencies in place - like more in the freezer - plus SS seems to like getting his own meals sometimes. It's a fine balance between not enough independence and too much (a couple of hairy escapades here recently!).

So just wondering if your DH could maybe have a careful discussion with the ex about - maybe as an experiment, agreeing that ESS can choose which house he is in when so he feels more in control of his life. And that this would need both parents to accept some minor upheaval possibly if he is fairly spontaneous on occasion.

My own feeling is that they start to push back against having split homes, and deep down would rather live in one home - but when it comes to it, they then miss the other home/parent so choose for themselves to go back to the routine but ask for the odd bit of flexibility now and then.

It's easier for us, with OH working from home and being self employed, but not so easy if you're both out at work.

Is ESS missing out on outings with friends when he has to travel by train to you? Also maybe say he is welcome to bring friends to stay sometimes.
 
Having said all that - choice can be a burden sometimes as well. And guided choice seems to work better. Eg - it's someone's birthday in 3 weeks, it would be nice if you were here for a few days. They then maybe feel motivated to plan around those dates and feel they have choice while still having some structure in place.

Our situation is different though in that there is no communication whatsoever between OH and EFH so everything is done through SS now - not ideal but mainly his choice and it certainly has been less stressful all round. He likes to deal with both parents himself. The downside to that is I worry he tries too hard to please others sometimes to keep them onside.
 
Thanks Esme, I actually agree that too much choice is dangerous. ESS is the type that takes things very personally and gets very defensive, so I could imagine that he would take it as we don’t want him here and/or wouldn’t want to put himself out there to plan something with us or say he’s coming to stay.

I don’t think OH should say anything to EFH because she can easily twist it to say we don’t want them here as often. Also depending on if she is seeing someone she may just see this as us taking away her alone time and inconveniencing her

we have also said to either of the SSs if they want a friend to come and stay then can. YSS said maybe as he has an old friend that lives in the city we live in, ESS basically said no way. ESS hasn’t really asked to skip any weeks because he doesn’t seem to have any social plans (which worries us but now he’s at college it seems he is meeting a new crowd which is good). So I don’t think he has missed out on things. He came to us the next day after his prom so he will adjust the plans if he wants to. Maybe this will change as he makes more plans with new friends on the weekends.

He is also keen to learn to drive and we talked about investigating the cost of adding him to the insurance on my car (I have a manual and OH has an auto and my car is much smaller and cheaper) so he can learn/practice driving when he is with us. I don’t see how he will be able to afford his own car in the next year though.
 
Maybe best just leave things as they are then. Does he ever talk to DH on his own? I get a lot of that now, and sometimes feel a bit ignored! All very boyish. But then a lot of it happens on car journeys when OH picks SS up. I don't mind really except OH often forgets to tell me things afterwards and I then don't know exactly what's happening!

Maybe the driving thing will be a new distraction for ESS. We did some of those junior driving lessons when SS was about 11 and even younger. It's supposed to make it easier for them when they come to do it later.
 
So maybe some driving lessons would give him more structure when with you and bring him out of himself a bit. If he gets his licence, could he use his Mother's car?
 
Yes OH and I discussed it and decided to leave it as it is. But we will be upping our expectations again in terms of his attitude because this weekend it was bad. The last weekend he was here it was good though and I thought wow he must be really enjoying college and his new course (which I think is true) because he seemed really animated about it. He’s doing carpentry and even offered to build us a garden path! It’s so hard to know what’s going on with them it’s so up and down. I guess all part of being a teenager I do remember it well.

Yes he talks to OH alone (although YSS is also there) mostly in the car to and from BFH as well. They do get quite a bit of alone time over the weekends anyway when I am out on my own or doing something else.

He would probably borrow his mothers car when he gets his licence - depends if she will pay to add him to the insurance or he can afford to pay the difference. But he wouldn’t be able to drive himself to us because she would need her car over the weekend.

Yes driving lessons will be a good activity. He’s very handy/practical skills and will likely be a natural driver. We might buy him some lessons for his birthday
 
They certainly do have moods. SS can be quite disrespectful and have an attitude sometimes as well. I just put it down to being a teenager and we find ignoring or being laid back seems to work best - getting annoyed just seems to get more defiance. It's the push to try and be more independent maybe. They seem to want a lot of space as well. It's tricky though as I worry about him being up too late on his computer. Ok so it's the week-end but ............. We're getting more relaxed about some things though.
 
SK can be difficult, but so can our own kids. I had the combo of living with ESS and EDD. It was a big challenge. We only lasted about a year and a half, then we arranged for ESS to live on his own with our financial support and H was with him often. We did all the shopping together and he loved it. I did not want him to feel alone and deserted, he wanted to be on his own, but it had its downsides. School was an issue, later on when EFH took control for a year, basically she pushed us out, rented out the apartment to about 4 boys and there was no control. ESS couldn’t wait for them to move out, the lot basically demolished the apartment and we ended up cleaning and putting it in order.
Since then things improved.
We had to accept that EFH made a huge mess and told ESS he is now on his own and then we had to save the day and give him a new start.
It took us Friday- Sunday working 12 hours.
I have never seen ESS so pleasantly surprised. He couldn’t believe he got his apartment back. We did it while he was away, with him there he just couldn’t bring himself to clean and repair. They had some tough times there and he just barely made through the year. All the contracts were air tight in terms of ensuring they pay the rent, but the possible damage, house rules were never mentioned.
When I saw the flat, I felt sorry for him. He was depressed and lost in the mess. Closets and beds were broken and so was the door to the toilet. He was very silent and kept us from entering and seeing the mess.
He was 20 at the time and has since recovered, he was pretty messed up. Ever since H doesn’t leave him alone. I am also in touch on my own.

I think you are doing well and have a much better situation than we had. Having so much stress and things I never anticipated happen made my life quite difficult at the time.

My advice, listen to your gut feeling, I believe letting a few things go and still gently but firmly setting boundaries is the way to go.
Children need parents, not pals. The may rebel, but they still appreciate encouragement and consistency, they need a home, not a room.
 
CatLady84 said:
Yes OH and I discussed it and decided to leave it as it is. But we will be upping our expectations again in terms of his attitude because this weekend it was bad. The last weekend he was here it was good though and I thought wow he must be really enjoying college and his new course (which I think is true) because he seemed really animated about it. He’s doing carpentry and even offered to build us a garden path! It’s so hard to know what’s going on with them it’s so up and down. I guess all part of being a teenager I do remember it well.

Yes he talks to OH alone (although YSS is also there) mostly in the car to and from BFH as well. They do get quite a bit of alone time over the weekends anyway when I am out on my own or doing something else.

He would probably borrow his mothers car when he gets his licence - depends if she will pay to add him to the insurance or he can afford to pay the difference. But he wouldn’t be able to drive himself to us because she would need her car over the weekend.

Yes driving lessons will be a good activity. He’s very handy/practical skills and will likely be a natural driver. We might buy him some lessons for his birthday
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That sounds a nice idea - driving lessons for his birthday :) He probably doesn't really know what he wants to do but is just feeling like he wants more control over his life - it does sound typical 17 year old stuff. Maybe he has other things going on as well - fall outs with friends or a girlfriend etc - they just don't seem to tell you things either.
 
I think stability and routine count for a lot when you are that age. Just quietly letting things continue, with flexibility when they need it, seems the right decision to me. Even if he seems in a foul mood, just knowing deep down that he is still welcome and that the routine will not just disapear may be worth a lot to him, even if he does not recognise it.
 
I currently have a situation where I don’t know if or when SS will be here in the Christmas holidays. He doesn’t know either except it won’t be Christmas Day. A time of year when you really need to plan and be organised. Especially as we have a second Christmas when he is here and do presents and another meal here. So I will just have to keep plenty of stuff in the freezer.
 
If you've seen elsewhere, my situation changed. SS is here full time. Sort of! He is out a lot.

Does your ESS have a girlfriend? Things seem to change big time then!
 
No I haven’t! How did that come about?

ESS does not have a girlfriend as far as we know. I suspect he would be very shy around girls. His social life definitely suffered over Covid and I don’t think he establish a solid friend group while he was 13-15. Now he is at college he seems to be making new friends which is good. This might lead him to meeting girls but he is doing a trade so I suspect there aren’t many girls on his course.

DP ended up talking to him about coming to our house every other weekend to try and feel out if he wanted to prioritise friends on the weekends instead. They both said they really like coming here and ESS asked if he could live with us if he finds an apprenticeship that is closer to our house than his mums so that’s something!
 
Yes he moved in very suddenly! However we hardly see him ha ha. He has this girlfriend and a social life. It's all very serious.
 
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