Lack of romance

[Noodle]

Hmmm i dont know where to start.

There is an issue. I feel that myself and H have been lacking something and rather than wait for a gesture that will never happen, i decided to ask. So i said for Hs birthday could we have a romantic weekend. So H got involved, much to my surprise, he started looking and he found somewhere romantic, very romantic and he said he would book it for his birthday, just the 2 of us.

So after SD staying for 4 weeks, me feeling ignored for so long, feeling completely invisible, i thought great! Hes booking us a romantic weekend. I was excited. I was looking forward to it. I booked time off work.

So, we then went out at the weekend.
We were with another couple and there is a slight bit of history.

On a past holiday, H has been prone to flirting with one of our mutual friends , the female in the couple. Last holiday abroad, i watched him put a flower in her hair. Made me feel sick, still does.

He touches her playfully and , shes about 12 years younger than me. She seeks attention constantly, cant take her drink, H thinks shes hilarious. Needless to say, when shes around im invisible. She bounces around like a toddler. Im very young minded for my age but H is a lot younger than me. I feel very insecure in this woman's company. She demands the spotlight whenever anyone is around her. H falls for it hook, line and sinker despite her partner being his best friend.

So at the weekend, we had the plan for a romantic weekend and after all the peopling i was looking forward to some us time. We are having a meal with said friends and firstly, I dip my chip in Hs dinner very out of character for him actually, he tells me off for dipping on his plate. Then, he recommended a cocktail to friends partner! Paying her much attention, " hey friends partner, i think you will really love this cocktail " then as a 2nd thought he says noodle , you might like this one....meh...so the cocktails arrive and mates partner looks at the raspberries in Hs cocktail and she says can i eat your raspberries? I was told off for dipping a chip on his plate but now hes carefully sharing out 3 raspberries to ensure he doesnt hurt my feelings but equally ensuring mates bird gets her raspberry request!

bear in mind hes flirting with his mates practical wife, and we are supposed to be having a nice romantic weekend together soon, and low and behold, H invites them to our romantic weekend. Im stunned and lost for words, i just nod.
This woman, that he pays unnecessary attention to has just been invited to our romantic weekend away.

Im so upset at the complete and utter lack of consideration. I really dont know how much is me or how much is H acting like a complete dick in front of bouncy 39 year old. Like i said im 52.
I think he wants a younger model. My 1st husband left me for a 10 year younger when i was 43. Its very painful to watch.
Its very personal and its not remotely funny. He plays with his mates wife like shes a puppy. Hes extremely serious with me, no fun, no games, no dipping your chip in my mushy peas but yes h8s mates 39 year old bird can have whatever she wants from him and he will place a flower in her hair whilst celebrating my birthday.

 

[Esme]

Oh goodness Noodle. The first thing that came to my mind was - what on earth does this other woman's partner/husband think about all this? Is he thick? Your H should not have invited them on your romantic week-end without discussing it with you first. That put you on the spot.

I was going to say maybe find a way to make it inconvenient for this other couple to come on the romantic week-end - which is an option. But maybe you just want to cancel the whole thing now.

I had a similar thing once with OH. We'd been together a few years and no issues but went to a post wedding party and there was someone there that he knew years ago before he met me and they were both flirting like crazy. This other female ignored me completely as if I was irrelevant. At first I ignored it and went off and danced with our friends. But after a while I got sick of being ignored so I went over and was very rude and said - can you stop flirting with my partner now please - and dragged him off.

It was clear to everyone what was happening, embarrassing to me to do nothing, so I did something. Probably gave them all something to talk about. She just raised her eyebrows. I didn't care - would probably never see her again but I made my point - back off lady!

I didn't tell OH off there and then as I wanted to enjoy the party and once she was "removed" from his presence, we had a nice time. But I did tell him off afterwards. He said it wasn't flirting, they were just old friends and had a lot to catch up on. I said it was flirting and if he ever did that to me again I'd leave him. He apologised.

I wouldn't say it wouldn't happen again but I'd deal with it the same - and we're both a bit older anyway.

So maybe you should confront this behaviour when you're all there. You don't need "friends" like that! Be blunt.

I'd also say to H - no I don't want to share our week-end with this couple and I want you to stop flirting with her - it's embarrassing for both me and her partner - you wouldn't like it if I did that.

If he goads you and says you're jealous, just say - no I'm not jealous, it's just bad behaviour.

Honestly Noodle, after all the things you've said I kind of want you to leave him - give him a wake up call. It's like he has all the power at the moment knowing you can't leave. Maybe bit by bit try and get some more independence.

Also 52 is not old by the way. I looked good at 50! And nothing like my age. I was single and had 20 year olds lusting after me (which was annoying and not flattering). Now in terms of earning capacity, building up a career and pensions, and taking out mortgages, 52 has it's limits, it's true. That's the financial aspect.

But maybe just start taking a few steps towards a bit of financial independence even if just a part time job or a night class. One thing can lead to another and you'll probably feel better for it.

As well as all that though. An older relationship isn't the same as a new one. People do get bored and in ruts and take each other for granted and he is being crass. He clearly just thinks he's God's gift and is taking you for granted. After all if you weren't there, he couldn't go out with another couple could he? He'd look like a pratt going out with a couple on his own.

So maybe look at an assertiveness book as well. It gives you the confidence to be able to deal with situations like that one. Without being too rude and keeping your confidence in tact. Just knowing how to react and what to say to deal with the situation.

Oh and do a bit of pampering so you feel good. I know what you mean as my H also left for a younger woman - I know what it can do to you. And that will be a raw spot for you. But this is not quite the same. It's not about you. It's about OH being a pratt and knowing he can get away with it.

Is there anything in your relationship that he depends on you for a lot? ie takes for granted. You could maybe be less willing to be helpful? Or just go away for a while and leave him to fend for himself. Any friends you could go off and visit for a long week-end? Men don't like being left alone and he would notice it if you weren't around.

 

[Esme]

I have an idea. Do you have a degree or anything? If not, you could do something like the Open University and study for one - it changed my life doing that as a mature student. It fulfills you in ways personally. The point being, once you have it, you could go into lecturing. Age wouldn't be an issue. You could be doing something you enjoy and earning as well. If you already have a degree, you could do a masters degree - that often leads to opportunities to teach at the university you're attending. You'd also meet a lot of people. Maybe a nice widower senior tutor with plenty of money Again I had one of those chasing me when I was single too. Trouble is I just didn't want a relationship at the time. He wasn't actually a widower, he was divorced, but lonely and about 10 years older than me.

 

[Maya]

We also hit a tough spots with lack of romance and intimacy.
And H also flirted with younger women when I wasn’t around. I found this out shopping. When she saw him she was so sweet and than I waked to H and just stood there, he said this is my wife and she smiled, a sour smile and was polite to me. She had no idea he was married. I asked directly what is he into, what is going on. He stopped, had to. It was at our cottage in a small village and word got around I exist.

Now, years later at 60 this year ( not yet, have a few days to go), I am in a different mindset. I saw H at his best and at his worst and I know he got what he needed in his life with all the lawsuits against him. He was immature, blind to so many things.
By the way, if the woman flirts with your H, she does it with everyone. Why doesn’t she leave her husband, because stability is essential to her, but she can’t help but be who she is. She will never leave her husband, she would really have to meet someone wealthy and tolerant enough to overlook her behavior.
Those don’t exist and she knows it.

You are the one your H wants to be with, there is something special about you that surely makes him stay. She is just someone he flirts with and is being an ah.
52 is by the way a great age. The looks are there, but so is a bit of wisdom that your H doesn’t have. It feels like he needs you, but has to get a few more life lessons. I don’t think he has it easy at all with all of the conflicts on his side of the family.

Say something to him, but calmly, politely, like, I would prefer to be alone with you, I don’t like watching you flirt with the woman, it is so obvious and feels quite insulting.

See what comes out of it. Sometimes men are really thick.
By the way, never use your age difference as an argument against you. You are firstly a person, a woman, a good choice for him and he should be grateful.

My H was young at heart and mind when we met. As much as it attracted me to him, it also repelled me with all his shenanigans over the years.
He used to say I am leaving, but always came back and when we were supposed to get divorced he said he never wanted this.
Translated, he just wanted everything his way, but I had no intention of going for it. Sometimes I felt more like someone who is more mother like to him.
I am only a year older than him, but I was more mature, so much more.
He had to do a lot of growing up.

And I had to find my way, be self sufficient. The tougher I got, the more he resisted and tried to break boundaries, until he finally settled down a bit.
I married a bit of a wild man with abilities, but no one set boundaries for him. He was the youngest in the family by far and too much to deal with, so he did what he did. It was really a lack of care. His mother was sick, his father died when he was 17 and he was left to his own accord, sometimes living with his brother and sometimes sister, while he was a teen.

But he can definitely be a lot of fun for me. When we go out together I am the loud one, he is more of a listener and stander by. I don’t flirt, but mingle.

He is a loner and likes to go out (by himself).
We know each other to well, not to be able to hide much from each other.

I can’t describe it any different than say, people who make mistakes also pay for them, people who are blind go through rough experiences in order to open their eyes.
So let them, let us.
I was living in my own bubble, the way I pictured my marriage was unrealistic. I was so unrealistic about H, as he was probably about me.
He said I am a demanding person. Yes, very probably. I cannot stand chaos.
With him I learned to survive in it, especially when things came into my life I never knew existed.

They do, no one is perfect, women in general are more mature, but many of us have to put up with a lot.

Try and enjoy your time as much as possible. Why don’t you mingle, have fun, laugh.
It is one thing I do and my ex couldn’t stand it. He forbid me to say hi to everyone I knew when going out with him and I knew a lot of people. He was more socially awkward than me. He wanted me to adore him and I guess was not very confident.

H doesn’t have any issues with me being me and that is a part of freedom I have in this marriage, as difficult as it got sometimes.

What I am trying to say is look for a way to enjoy yourself, relax, within this relationship. It will never be perfect, don’t expect your H to make you happy.
We have to learn to be happy, by ourselves.

Talk to the woman’s husband and ignore H. Give him a taste of what it is like.

I don’t have all the answers, sometimes divorce is the answer and sometimes it is not. Being on your own is not easy either.

Give it some time, you have gone through weeks of conflicts and provocations and than watching his encounter with his daughter. It was a bit much, I think.
Your H seems to be on a roll and you are tired from all of it.

 

[Noodle]

Thanks both, i appreciate your wisdom and take it on board.
Im not sure whats going on , i dont know how much of my reality is internal and how much is external.
So the friend H flirts with, she doesnt join in...its all him, touchy, feely, playful with her. Shes an alcoholic, everyone thinks shes funny and she is because shes always drink. She talks about herself non stop. I think she catches Hs eye because shes bouncy. When H flirts with her she seems to not notice, or maybe she is embarrassed? Anyway, she ignores him. Her partner is also oblivious again, maybe embarrassed
Whatever is going on, something is not quite right.
I do already have a degree. I am learning to slowly step outside of our relationship. Both my children will live outside of my house shortly. Im not feeling 100 % great at the thought of it just being us 2 left.
I did suggest the other day that im going to spend a weekend away by myself to get some headspace. H said, "what will i do" he said he doesnt want me to go because he will miss me.
You are right i am tired. Im tired of all the conflict the confusion the mixed messages. Im tired that he doesnt sort his own problems out.
Regarding the sale of the house, im sure you both remember how long this has been going on . H is finally at a stage where the solicitor wants some details from him regarding the house. On Sunday he asked me to deal with his paperwork, i just looked at him. He said ok i will do it later. He hasnt done it and he wont do it and it infuriates me.
Im not doing it for him. Im so angry that we have money problems, he is paying his ex wife a fortune in child maintenance arrears for the unruly stepson who refuses to go to school and yet whilst his ex wife lives in secure financial comfort being financially supported by 2 men, my husband wont even pass his details to the solicitor to get the ball rolling on his end.
Its never ending. 1 problem ends and another 1 starts.
Also the woman he flirts with had her father over to stay. He is a lovely man. Hes very charming i naturally found him easy to have a conversation with. H doesnt really seem to care much, i spent a lot of time talking to the man. I found him very interesting. H grabs my hand above the table possesively. He tells me that he thinks hes not good enough for me.

 

[Esme]

I was at loggerheads with OH for almost two years in a similar way, out of anger and resentment over a decision he made unilaterally. Now I had accepted there was no right decision out of two, but I was infuriated that he wouldn't even discuss it and said he was making the decision. When for years we had made decisions together. It was related to SS and suddenly he was pulling rank on me. His decision affected both me and SS. We hardly spoke for about 6 months. I wanted to leave. It was during the pandemic and I couldn't leave, so I threw myself into new projects and avoided him. As I say we hardly spoke. I made an effort when SS was here to act normal but all the dynamics were wrong and he just saw me as being awful to his Dad. He also didn't understand how I'd let the decision happen and blamed me (which made me even more angry with OH).

All I can say is - things can change. They can come right in the end when you're not expecting it and sometimes the kids themselves do something that makes your lives easier and you can let go of some of the resentments. Some decisions are tough and awful. My biggest bugbear was suddenly being relegated to not being involved in a decision.

Things are a lot better now and we do need each other (especially when one of us is sick and then you appreciate things). However there will perhaps always be a part of me that will have a plan b so I could be independent if needed. Maybe that comes from being in a mess after divorce previously. Having a plan b can make you more confident as well and then your OH sees a more confident side to you.

I fully understand what you feel when he asks you to sort out the paperwork. I had the same thing during those two years. That he made that decision but still expected help with paperwork! I would eventually do it grudgingly but I was horrible to him. Or I would ask him to do something for me. That is history now.

So I guess I'd say - these things can get out of proportion. And rather than get frosty about doing the paperwork I would still be his partner and say - yes of course - I can help with that, but I'd like you to help me with xyz as well so we do things for each other.

Maybe? It's that balance between not wanting to be a doormat and not wanting to create ongoing friction that leads to more and more resentments on both sides.

Also, although you might dread just the two of you being on your own, it might be better. Different dynamics again. It struck me that some of his resentments might be that you have your kids living with you and he doesn't. So he's being childish and competitive perhaps and has little resentments of his own (even though nothing is your fault).

If your kids do leave (which I know will be hard!) it might actually be better. I felt similarly at one time (when we thought we had lost SS and didn't see much of him). There were ups and downs. We both missed SS which could lead to moping and tetchiness (and I still blamed him). But there were other times when we just developed a way of being a couple again - something we hadn't had really from the outset - because we were thrown straight into family life shortly after meeting.

And that is common for a lot of second wives and stepmums - one or both of you have kids and your relationship starts out being thrown straight into family life and no real time as a couple to develop before kids come along.

So I would just take things one step at a time. If you have a degree maybe start a Masters degree (Is there something like the Open University)? In a subject you really like. I've always wanted to do art history! (Although that wouldn't be good for a career probably). Or even register part time at a local university and do it there?

Having a degree can always be useful and teaching a subject you know about (at university level rather than in a school - teaching is not something I'd recommend for a later career! Having tried it. At University level it's much better. I know a number of people who started a Masters degree and were offered the odd bit of part time lecturing along the way, leading to becoming a lecturer. The hours are better and you can do a lot from home. It may not be the best paid job in the world (slightly better than teaching I think) but it can be for as long as you like I think and can lead to a more senior appointment such as a bursar and much better pay. It could be something to keep under your belt.

Age isn't an issue with university teaching and maturity is valued

 

[Esme]

Sorry just updated that last post a bit!

 

[Esme]

Just to add - I really did ask for things in return and I think you should use this to your advantage and get the power balance back again. On one occasion I said - ok but I also want a tumble drier. And OH agreed. He had always refused that before due to the cost of running it (which is an issue) but I made the point that I also need some help. So I got a few changes made that I wanted out of the situation.

 

[Maya]

Men and paperwork.
Had the same situation. The lawsuit was over regarding his inheritance and they were supposed to file for a division of the property. I gave him some time to recover, than urged him to do it. He got angry at me and told me he will and to leave him alone. He was angry at his brothers, because they didn’t lift a finger.
I kept going encouraging him to file the papers anyway, arguing that his brothers were older, one was sick the other one needs to be told what to do.
And so on, until one day he finally got his thing in order and did it, they all did.
I felt like something is finally over and you don’t want it to end. Crazy, I don’t know if it is the nerves, the fear or actually being worn out by the whole situation.
He may act like it’s nothing, but all this would wear anyone down.